Bringing Religion back into the schools...

I have no problem with classes on theology (in which beliefs are not presented as facts), or children of any particular religion meeting by flagpoles before school, but public schools should not be in the business of promoting any religions. Children in our public schools should not be led in public prayers, nor should teachers be allowed to decorate their classrooms with personal religious memorabilia.

My main objection along these lines is when the religion of creationism (thinly disguised as the pseudoscience of intelligent design) is taught as science when it clearly is not science.

I think as Christians we should vote our conscience but not to the degree of regulating our theology upon our fellow citizens through the government.

MarkFL said:

I have no problem with classes on theology (in which beliefs are not presented as facts), or children of any particular religion meeting by flagpoles before school, but public schools should not be in the business of promoting any religions. Children in our public schools should not be led in public prayers, nor should teachers be allowed to decorate their classrooms with personal religious memorabilia.

My main objection along these lines is when the religion of creationism (thinly disguised as the pseudoscience of intelligent design) is taught as science when it clearly is not science.

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I agree mostly with you here. The U.S. being multicultural more so now than when I was in school would be threading a very thin line here. And most public schools do allow meet me at the flag pole devotions before class and student led prayer in clubs and programs.

bill1231 said:

In my miond the answer to that is yes we can. I am sure to get some PC people to disagree but it is what I believe

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The problem you'll have is if you expect children of other faiths to be subjected to your faith while not letting them learn about their own faiths.

Personally I don't want to see any compulsion to take part in any religious ceremonies of any faiths. I have no problem with schools teaching the facts of what the world's major religions believe but the last thing I want is teachers telling children what they should believe in.

bill1231 said:

I do not force anyone to be a chrisytian but I also do not want someone saying we as christians cannot express ourselves either

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If we as Christians are allowed to express ourselves, would you deny that same freedom to Hindus? Buddhists? Muslims?

Lämmchen said:

Yet which religion?

I know that the Christian religion was allowed in the school system in the US for the longest time. But now, we can't expect our religion to be there and not allow others...can we?

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I don't WANT the secular government teaching religion.... IMO, it's confusing the Two Kingdoms and surplanting parents (and the church) which God entrusted with this - not the secular civil government. I REJOICE that in the early church, Christians did NOT look to the Roman Empire to teach religion to their kids but rather THEY taught them. Should Obama determine what our kids are taught? The Supreme Court (the same that gave us abortion, etc.)? No, I don't want them to teach my kids..... I'LL do that, my parish will help me. I want the secular, government schools to BUTT OUT, leave me be. IF I want the school to assist me, I'LL chose a Lutheran school. Otherwise....



Just MY half cent....


Pax


- Josiah





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Josiah said:

I don't WANT the secular government teaching religion.... IMO, it's confusing the Two Kingdoms and surplanting parents (and the church) which God entrusted with this - not the secular civil government. I REJOICE that in the early church, Christians did NOT look to the Roman Empire to teach religion to their kids but rather THEY taught them. Should Obama determine what our kids are taught? The Supreme Court (the same that gave us abortion, etc.)? No, I don't want them to teach my kids..... I'LL do that, my parish will help me. I want the secular, government schools to BUTT OUT, leave me be. IF I want the school to assist me, I'LL chose a Lutheran school. Otherwise....



Just MY half cent....


Pax


- Josiah





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I want to add..... I agree with some above.... I have no problem with secular schools teaching (as belief) what various religions believe (without judgment)... in fact, I think kids SHOULD know the religious context in which we live (If I lived in some Arab country, my kids SHOULD know how Islam impacts that culture), whether American is still "Christian" or not, much in our culture is impacted by that religion, much of English literature is supersaturated with Christian themes... even Atheists should know that Christmas is not only about Santa and snow. But I'm talking anthropology/sociology here, not teaching religion as what one should believe or which is right.

I'm not opposed to a SILENT moment of prayer (which students may or may not use)..... heaven knows there is LOTS of prayer going on as the test is being passed out, lol.

And I'm a supporter of freedom of speech..... While I'd limit this for TEACHERS (as agents of the State), I think STUDENTS should be very free to talk about their faith even allowed to say why they don't believe some religion - as long as that is done respectfully, without condemning others. Students are free to say why they support or oppose some war or some secular view or some candidate (although TEACHERS are limited here) as long as its done respectfully - I see no difference with religion. I think many schools have gone too far in excluding religious speak and expression by STUDENTS, especially in places like The People's Republic of California (I understand in places like Texas, religious freedom still exists in schools - albeit barely). I have a very good friend who lives in Spain. I've visited him there. This is a country where FEW go to church anymore but the schools are very embracing of the faith of their culture; classrooms often have manger scenes at Christmas time, etc. And since there are a lot of Muslims there, they are often quite embracing of the traditions of that religion, too: it just doesn't seem to be a problem there. Indeed, I think in all of Western Europe (MORE secular than the USA), there is a better embrace of freedom of religion in the schools than we have here where I think we've over-reacted, sometimes with freedom FROM religion, forbidding freedom of speech. We can ACKNOWLEDGE faith without PROMOTING faith as true or fact.


Sorry....



Pax



- Josiah


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bill1231 said:

And therein lies the problem, this nation was mostly christian and people know that coming here. No, they should not be forced to join our religion but at the same time they should respect what this coubntry is in terms of religion. Try going to a muslim or buddist country and demanding these same things and see where you end up.

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A nation cannot have a faith. The fact that a majority might be Christian isn't relevant as far as other faiths are concerned. Isn't the US supposed to be the "land of the free"? Or does being free only apply to people who think the same as we do?

Other nations don't make the same claim to freedom so what they do isn't really relevant. There's probably a reason more people leave those nations to come to the US, than move the other way.

bill1231 said:

Of course it is free, at least freeer than the nations a lot of them come from and economically better in many cases. Of course if they want to change us into what they left then they will also lose the reason they came here to begin with.

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Who said anything about changing us? That's a different discussion. The question at hand is whether a Hindu or a Muslim should have the same freedom to express their religion as Christians do.

bill1231 said:

Yes freedom to practice theirreligion as they see fit, not to demand changes in our expressions

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The impression I get is that it's usually those of no faith who don't want faith expressed in schools rather than those of different faiths.

tango said:

The impression I get is that it's usually those of no faith who don't want faith expressed in schools rather than those of different faiths.

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To many atheists (like myself), one religious imposition is the same as any other, but to the religious, the imposition of another religion is far worse, and especially to members of a particular religion who have enjoyed having their religion being imposed upon everyone else in their society for centuries. Such people have little experience being on the receiving end of this kind of imposition, and find it far more shocking than those who experience it daily.

It would be like taking a black man and a white man (both from the U.S.) and putting them in a society of green people, where non-greens are discriminated against. The white man would find this discrimination to be more shocking than the black man, who has grown accustomed to such treatment.

I would wager a large sum that if a teacher in my county began leading sequestered children in Muslim prayers, the most vociferous protests by a large margin would come from Christian parents.