The war on drugs ... does it make any sense?

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,121
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
As far back as I can remember the nations that I've lived in have been waging a warn on drugs and drug abuse together with addiction has increased and increased over my entire life time. Is it time to change the way drugs are dealt with. Has the war on drugs failed?

 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
53
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
No war on drugs in Holland. My nephews use pot and the neighbourhood friends come there to smoke pot in the garden house. Haha said my brother in law. Come on, nothing wrong with it.
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
53
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
I have used it myself a few times when I was in a mental hospital because I got insane from the prozac they gave me (what's worse actually?), so I did a suicide attempt. Then I smoked pot and 'god' said I was married to a guy there who was addicted and leviticus said it was a sin to go back to my ex. Then I lost my kids and fell from my faith and the church and marriage were ruined. Luckily I had to throw up when I used it, so I didn't get addicted. I could just buy it in a coffeeshop. They should have a war on prescription drugs too. Was addicted to benzoids for 2 years. Then my other ex who was on pot said what's the difference? They make that from opium. Then I stopped.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
You can be addicted to almost anything, where does personal responsibility come in?
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
53
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
You can be addicted to almost anything, where does personal responsibility come in?
I don't care. Ban alcohol too. They're banning cigarettes now more or less. We didn't stand up as christians and let the laws be changed and let everything in. They should ban porn. They do that in England I read, that it's not available for kids to watch. I have to warn my 9 year old to never watch porn with a friend and to never smoke pot. It is absolutely insane. Whole villages, 16 year olds are addicted to pot.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
The fact is that pot is less addicting and harmful than alcohol, it makes no sense to ban the lesser evil while allowing the greater one. I do not smoke or drink but I do see the common sense involved
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
53
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
The fact is that pot is less addicting and harmful than alcohol, it makes no sense to ban the lesser evil while allowing the greater one. I do not smoke or drink but I do see the common sense involved

It's not less harmful and if people can drink normal there's nothing wrong with alcohol. I took one joint and it was really demonic. If I drink one glass of whine on a party there's nothing the matter, even Jesus drank whine. Not much you can do about it all I'm afraid, except set people free, there are so many addicts who now need help, and pray for revival.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
As far back as I can remember the nations that I've lived in have been waging a warn on drugs and drug abuse together with addiction has increased and increased over my entire life time. Is it time to change the way drugs are dealt with. Has the war on drugs failed?


As I write this, I have not watched the video. Maybe later.

If memory serves, it was Ron Paul that said that every time a war is declared on something, we get more of it. I don't know if that's true generally, but it is for some things. Prohibition creates a lucrative black market for those willing to take that chance, and for those not willing to, it protects certain interests. In the case of drugs - specifically certain drugs - the "war" and the illegality protects the Pharma industry. This is why something like "Marinol" (synthetic THC) has been legal for decades on a prescription basis but Cannabis has had to fight for the same right.

I do believe some drugs are dangerous for a variety of reasons but I do not think that outlawing them and creating stiff penalties is the answer. It just gives incentives for black market trade, high prices and the crime associated with those things. Personally, I'd also rather see a heroin addict get his fix - or better yet - have a safer and viable alternative to alleviate his/her withdrawals than meet them on the street armed and desperate.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Depends on the drug, weed I think should be legalized as for any of the others I would say no
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
I don't care. Ban alcohol too. They're banning cigarettes now more or less. We didn't stand up as christians and let the laws be changed and let everything in. They should ban porn. They do that in England I read, that it's not available for kids to watch. I have to warn my 9 year old to never watch porn with a friend and to never smoke pot. It is absolutely insane. Whole villages, 16 year olds are addicted to pot.

It's not less harmful and if people can drink normal there's nothing wrong with alcohol. I took one joint and it was really demonic. If I drink one glass of whine on a party there's nothing the matter, even Jesus drank whine. Not much you can do about it all I'm afraid, except set people free, there are so many addicts who now need help, and pray for revival.

It seems this is a passionate issue for you, friend.

It is for me as well, and we seem to be on opposite sides of it.

I'm a very big Cannabis supporter, and I personally don't even use it all that often. I know it is not addictive. Not physically, anyway. I know because I used to smoke it nearly every day in the last few years of high school. I'm not exaggerating about that. When I decided I wanted to quit years later, it was extremely easy. Sure, there was peer pressure and my friends continued to use it, but I suffered not 1 negative withdrawal effect, not 1 physical craving when I gave it up.

The "Jesus drank wine" argument falls short when one is talking addiction. Alcohol withdrawal can be deadly. A person can die from it. It may be true Yeshua made "alcoholic wine" from water, but there are other indications that cast doubt on this. The story of bursting wine skins comes to mind. Whatever the case though, there is no comparison to the plant. Alcohol is a poison. It is called "alcohol" and not a "drug" - but for all intents and purposes - it is a drug, and it is a poison. Too much and one can easily overdose and die.

This is not true for Cannabis. Not only is it not true, there are many medical applications for Cannabis. Proven and verifiable applications.

I don't want to comment on your experience with pot except to say - you had one experience. Do you know your Cannabis was not laced with something? Probably not, being where you are from - but unless you sourced it from a reliable source or grew it, it's hard to say for sure.

I have never had what I would describe as a "demonic" experience with Cannabis - but I did get a hold of some bad stuff once and it made me feel very "off" and I went pale. Nothing beyond that though.

Demonic experiences under the influence - for me this was certain experiences with LSD. That's not something I ever want to do again.

------------------

Regarding video: Thanks [MENTION=60]MoreCoffee[/MENTION]. It was worth the watch.
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
53
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
I only know people who are addicted to it. They have centers here where they can get rid of it, but it's hard. Since you can get it everywhere here, just go to the coffeeshop around the corner and buy it, a lot of teenagers have become addicted to it. My nephews just smoke it with their friends in a garden house day in day out. Their dad thought oh who cares? He likes to drink socially and they use pot socially. Throwing people in prison for having it is insane, but here it's become way too easy to get.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,143
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
As far back as I can remember the nations that I've lived in have been waging a warn on drugs and drug abuse together with addiction has increased and increased over my entire life time. Is it time to change the way drugs are dealt with. Has the war on drugs failed?

I must admit I'm a believer in making all drugs legal, every single one of them. There are a host of reasons why:

Drug pushers are in it to make money. Once someone is hooked they can raise the price pretty much as high as they want, and the addict will do what it takes to raise the money. Whether that's street robbery, mugging, prostitution, burglary, they'll find the money somehow. If people can get their fix over the counter at CVS it puts a cap on the price, meaning there's less profit in it for the dealers and less crime. If the dealer wants $100 for a wrap of heroin, or you can get it from CVS for $25, that means the addict using illegal means to fund their habit has to commit 75% less crime to acquire their fix.

When the illegal trade in drugs generates such huge cashflows it's inevitable that the people at the top will look to protect their own cashflows, so you get battles over the most lucrative territories. Too bad for any innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire if rival drug gangs are trying to drive each other out. Whether victims of such a battle are members of gangs or innocent bystanders, the deaths and injuries carry a human as well as a financial cost.

Drug dealers have been known to target schools, looking to get kids hooked while they are young. They can offer a hit of something for maybe a couple of bucks, again knowing that once the child is hooked they'll find a way to come up with the cash for their habit. Once again there is a huge human cost as well as financial cost if the child is pilfering cash from parents or turning to crime. There's also the human cost of their education being disrupted. If the dealer has little prospect of making big bucks from getting people hooked they are less likely to bother - if the drugs are freely available over the counter what's the point in trying to get someone hooked when you won't make any profit from them any more? Which leads into another point...

At present drugs are illegal and anything illegal has an air of "cool, rebel, anti-authority" attached to it. So the teenager who wants to act like the tough guy (or tough girl, depending) can gain a bit of kudos from being the one who's involved, however tangentially, with the world of drugs. Flip that around - to your average 15-year-old boy trying to look cool in front of his mates, what could be less cool than standing in line at the local Walgreens, behind an 83-year-old woman wanting her corn plasters, to get a couple of grams of cocaine?

If drugs are legalised the purity can be guaranteed. If you buy your cocaine over the counter you can be sure it's quality controlled and of a known purity. If you buy your cocaine from a dodgy character in a tunnel there's no way of knowing whether he's cut it with sugar, flour, battery acid, or anything else. You'll find out soon enough if you snort it and it burns the insides of your nose away. Chances are he's not covered by any form of trading standards, is unlikely to offer a refund, and if things get too hot because of unhappy customers (assuming the unhappy customers are even still alive) all he needs to do is move to another location to sell his wares. So once again the human suffering is alleviated, not to mention the financial burden of the medical treatment required when drugs are cut with something really nasty.

While drugs are illegal it's harder for addicts to seek help, keeping everything underground. If drugs are legal a tax can be applied to them which can be used to fund treatment for people who overdo it or who do become addicted. It can offer a way out that doesn't involve prison time.

There's always a chance that if drugs are suddenly made available over the counter people who might never have used them might start to use them, which could increase the human cost if they do become addicted. But I'd hazard a guess that people who want to use drugs are already using them - cigarettes and alcohol are legal and generally available yet some people choose not to partake of either or both. It's not unreasonable to conclude that the number of people who would suddenly start using cocaine because it had been legalised would be very high.

Speaking of alcohol, since alcohol is a legal substance there's no push from the people who sell it to try something harder. You don't find liquor store owners sounding out the person who wants a six-pack and trying to persuade them to try whisky instead. There's no need, all the products are legal and it makes more sense to just let the customer buy what they want than to push something they don't want. There's also the sense of encouraging responsible drinking, with programs like Alcoholics Anonymous for those who do realise their drinking has become problematic.

There would certainly be some costs associated with legalising drugs but I find it hard to believe they would be as high as the costs of ongoing prohibition.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,143
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I don't care. Ban alcohol too. They're banning cigarettes now more or less. We didn't stand up as christians and let the laws be changed and let everything in. They should ban porn. They do that in England I read, that it's not available for kids to watch. I have to warn my 9 year old to never watch porn with a friend and to never smoke pot. It is absolutely insane. Whole villages, 16 year olds are addicted to pot.

The trouble with trying to regulate things that are fundamentally matters of personal decision is that we have to ask where it stops. It's nothing to do with being a Christian - God gave us the freedom to accept him and follow him, or reject him. What gives us the right to take that away from people? Banning alcohol during the Prohibition era seemed to achieve very little beyond making Al Capone a very rich man. If you ban it you'll just drive it underground - the war on drugs hasn't made the drug problem go away.

England has exactly the same troubles as everywhere else in trying to control porn. The reputable porn producers understand that their product is meant for adults and will participate in schemes designed to prevent children seeing it. The less reputable porn producers (the ones who send out unsolicited emails with explicit images, the ones who use browser hijacking techniques to open multiple windows, the ones who use domains that are slightly tweaked versions of well known and popular sites) are the ones that are hard to regulate. No country can regulate the behavior of a site that operates from another country, so all a site needs to do is set up somewhere that doesn't ask too many questions and they can start spamming their wares all over the place.

What has happened in England is that for many years pornographic magazines have been put on the top shelves or behind the counter, and for a few years now they have been put in sleeves so little more than the title is visible. That seems like a good solution, so the people who want to buy it can see which magazine is which and choose the one they want while people who don't want it aren't constantly faced with it when choosing a magazine that is nearby.
 

visionary

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
2,824
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Messianic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
All addictions are signs of a dependence on something other than God. We should all be making God our addiction, in that it consumes our hearts, minds, and bodies to serve Him.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Exactly right, but some drugs are so addictive and dangerous that they need to be regulated and outlawed
 

visionary

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
2,824
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Messianic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Exactly right, but some drugs are so addictive and dangerous that they need to be regulated and outlawed
Diagnose and treat accordingly. They need help not punishment.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
I agree with that, we should not be locking them up and throwing away the key but rather helping them, the drugs themselves though should never be legalized
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,143
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I agree with that, we should not be locking them up and throwing away the key but rather helping them, the drugs themselves though should never be legalized

Prohibition just means criminals get rich while society pays the cost, both human and financial.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Prohibition just means criminals get rich while society pays the cost, both human and financial.

So you want cocaine in your coke again? Or people overdosing all over the place?
 

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
60
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
So you want cocaine in your coke again? Or people overdosing all over the place?

I doubt the legalization of drugs would mean Coca-Cola would resume adding cocaine to their product. I also doubt it would cause a significant number people who otherwise choose not to do drugs to begin using them. Overdosing would likely decrease, because purity could be regulated if legalized. Overdosing is likely to occur when a drug user become accustomed to a certain purity, and then acquires a batch that has a significantly higher purity without knowing it, and unwittingly introduces a much larger amount of the active ingredient into their body. If drugs like cocaine and heroine are regulated this would be less likely to happen.

I see many more pros to legalization than cons, most of which [unm]tango[/unm] already outlined earlier. :)
 
Top Bottom