USA Guns, gun control, and rights.

MoreCoffee · Oct 4, 2017

Okay, the USA is not likely to pass any significant gun control laws in the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. But that raises a question. After more than 200 mass shootings in 2017 and the killing of 59 people in Law Vegas a few days ago what can be done to reduce the number of mass shooting events in the USA? Or doesn't it matter because second amendment rights are sacrosanct and the nation is willing to pay the price whatever it is to preserve that right?

Imalive · Oct 4, 2017

united prayer meetings

hotrhymez · Oct 4, 2017

i dont think banning all guns is the answer. Criminals will always find them somehow. (black market, etc)

maybe prayer..and educate people about gun safety..
?

Stravinsk · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, the USA is not likely to pass any significant gun control laws in the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. But that raises a question. After more than 200 mass shootings in 2017 and the killing of 59 people in Law Vegas a few days ago what can be done to reduce the number of mass shooting events in the USA? Or doesn't it matter because second amendment rights are sacrosanct and the nation is willing to pay the price whatever it is to preserve that right?

Why do the number of "mass shootings" need to be reduced, as a opposed to stabbings, bombings, vehicular manslaughter incidents etc? Your question comes under the assumption that a specific type of violence needs to be handled as if it's more serious than other types of violence. The use of a gun is no more horrific or violent than the use of a knife to gut someone, or the use of a motor vehicle to mow them down. Hello.

Furthermore - (and at the moment I have no opinion on the recent events in Las Vegas - except to say that if it's real, then it is tragic) - a good deal of the highly publicized incidents in the USA over the last several years (and some in other places in the world) have been shown (to my satisfaction anyway) to be manufactured events. Again, this wouldn't be all of them - but some of the more prominent ones are done with exactly people like you in mind. You automatically believe them - you don't think the news would ever lie, you say your prayers, attend your vigils, and of course, you are convinced not only of the narrative on display - but also the talking heads "solutions". More government, more control, more rights (like weapons rights) taken away.

MoreCoffee · Oct 4, 2017

Stravinsk said:
Why do the number of "mass shootings" need to be reduced, as a opposed to stabbings, bombings, vehicular manslaughter incidents etc? Your question comes under the assumption that a specific type of violence needs to be handled as if it's more serious than other types of violence. The use of a gun is no more horrific or violent than the use of a knife to gut someone, or the use of a motor vehicle to mow them down. Hello.

Furthermore - (and at the moment I have no opinion on the recent events in Las Vegas - except to say that if it's real, then it is tragic) - a good deal of the highly publicized incidents in the USA over the last several years (and some in other places in the world) have been shown (to my satisfaction anyway) to be manufactured events. Again, this wouldn't be all of them - but some of the more prominent ones are done with exactly people like you in mind. You automatically believe them - you don't think the news would ever lie, you say your prayers, attend your vigils, and of course, you are convinced not only of the narrative on display - but also the talking heads "solutions". More government, more control, more rights (like weapons rights) taken away.

Okay, let them remain at over 250 in 2017 so far. If that's what you mean to say.

Stravinsk · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, let them remain at over 250 in 2017 so far. If that's what you mean to say.

Only people blinded by rhetoric and lacking in some basic sense would imagine that taking away firearms would immediately reduce violence (or eliminate firearms when so many already exist). You didn't answer one point in what you quoted, just repeated a large number like the number itself in a country of well over 300 million means something.

Oh, and let's define "mass shooting" - here I'm guessing that you'll be relying on something of the scale of what we have been told happened in Las Vegas? That would be disingenuous, at best.

Here's your list:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Definitely disingenuous. It seems a "mass shooting" can be as little as 4 people getting shot in an incident - and none of them necessarily has to be killed.

Does Australia have less violent crime since taking away firearms from the average citizen?

Careful note - I didn't say violent gun crime - I said violent crime.

Speaking of gun crime - it still happens here. People can still get guns. Harder, riskier, more expensive - but not impossible.

MoreCoffee · Oct 4, 2017

Okay, you don't think that restricting gun availability will contribute to reducing mass shooting events. What will? Is there any means by which the USA can reduce mass shootings?

Stravinsk · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, you don't think that restricting gun availability will contribute to reducing mass shooting events. What will? Is there any means by which the USA can reduce mass shootings?

Again - 0 points answered. It's like you neither read my first post you quoted nor the last one. Or you have some really serious reading comprehension issues to address.

Albion · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, the USA is not likely to pass any significant gun control laws in the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. But that raises a question. After more than 200 mass shootings in 2017 and the killing of 59 people in Law Vegas a few days ago what can be done to reduce the number of mass shooting events in the USA? Or doesn't it matter because second amendment rights are sacrosanct and the nation is willing to pay the price whatever it is to preserve that right?

The people in other countries have paid at least the same price to attackers using trucks, machetes, knives, bombs, and whatever. Somehow, the rest of the people don't rush to the news media to say all of those weapons ought to be made illegal.

NewCreation435 · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, the USA is not likely to pass any significant gun control laws in the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. But that raises a question. After more than 200 mass shootings in 2017 and the killing of 59 people in Law Vegas a few days ago what can be done to reduce the number of mass shooting events in the USA? Or doesn't it matter because second amendment rights are sacrosanct and the nation is willing to pay the price whatever it is to preserve that right?

It would take a constitutional amendment to legally limit the number of weapons those who are not felons are allowed to carry. In the US, the NRA is a strong political lobby group as well as a gun enthusiast group. Trump isn't going to do anything to make them mad.
I think it would be good to see this country get serious about mental health. From someone who works in the field, I can tell you there are large gaps where people in need don't get services they should. Funding more mental health services i think would help. Ultimately, guns are not the problem. It is the evil in men's hearts that are the problem. When they don't have access to guns, evil people use their vehicles, knives, and planes to kill people

Josiah · Oct 4, 2017

IMO, this is a difficult issue.... and in the USA, there's much cultural in play...

But I agree with a comment above: I find it... curious.... the leftist press is SO concern about those who die in "mass shootings" but so entirely, completely unconcern about those who die in FAR, FAR greater number otherwise. In abortion, 1.3 MILLION are killled (often ruthlessly and very painfully) every year - three times as many PER HOUR than were killed in Las Vegas - but the very same people who are SO concern about some individual wacko gunman won't even mention that. Just one example. Hum......

I believe in original sin.... and in evil .... and in people who are, well, not well.

- Josiah

.

Imalive · Oct 4, 2017

Albion said:
The people in other countries have paid at least the same price to attackers using trucks, machetes, knives, bombs, and whatever. Somehow, the rest of the people don't rush to the news media to say all of those weapons ought to be made illegal.

Not in Holland. It works fine to forbid em, but I don't think they can turn that back anymore.

MoreCoffee · Oct 4, 2017

Albion said:
The people in other countries have paid at least the same price to attackers using trucks, machetes, knives, bombs, and whatever. Somehow, the rest of the people don't rush to the news media to say all of those weapons ought to be made illegal.

The USA has had 364 people shot and killed in mass shootings so far in 2017.

Albion · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
The USA has had 364 people shot and killed in mass shootings so far in 2017.

Using 3 victims as the definition of mass, the actual total is 22, other than for the Las Vegas shooting of the other day.

MoreCoffee · Oct 4, 2017

Albion said:
Using 3 victims as the definition of mass, the actual total is 22, other than for the Las Vegas shooting of the other day.

That is not true.

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

Albion · Oct 4, 2017

Alas, it is.

There are plenty of bogus statistics when it comes to allegedly mass shooting deaths. And, by the way, even if we were to agree on the listing you gave with that link, the total is FAR less than you claimed. That's part of the problem with talk about mass killings. You are counting suicides and people who were wounded, too, although you state that there were 364 people shot and killed.

MennoSota · Oct 4, 2017

Gun control is a red herring. It's treating a symptom while ignoring the disease.
The ultimate disease is man's rebellious corruption and thus mental illness.
Never has a gun, a sword, an arrow, a knife, a bomb killed anyone. It has always been man killing man because his deeds are evil.
God alone can heal the corrupted heart of man. God alone can keep man from killing man.
God is under no obligation to stop rebels from killing rebels, just as the US is under no obligation to stop someone else's civil war.
One day, however, God will end the rebellion of man and justly judge those whom he has not extended grace.

psalms 91 · Oct 4, 2017

I believe in gun rights but I also believe that there should be some common sense things done as well, after seeing the bump stock I wonder why they are even legal

tango · Oct 4, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, the USA is not likely to pass any significant gun control laws in the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. But that raises a question. After more than 200 mass shootings in 2017 and the killing of 59 people in Law Vegas a few days ago what can be done to reduce the number of mass shooting events in the USA? Or doesn't it matter because second amendment rights are sacrosanct and the nation is willing to pay the price whatever it is to preserve that right?

The trouble is even if it were possible to remove guns from the hands of criminals (and one obvious problem is that criminals typically don't worry too much about breaking the law, so banning them only goes so far) is that if someone is minded to harm lots of other people they will find another way. That might be with knives or blunt instruments (which makes for a slower and far less pleasant demise, but isn't so good at taking out a lot of people fast) or some form of chemical attack.

The guy who attacked the Boston Marathon used a pressure cooker. The IRA used all sorts of vehicle-based devices. The insurgents in the Middle East use a variety of IEDs and, given the I stands for Improvised, it's reasonable to conclude that your "lone wolf" attacker can improvise something too. Or maybe it will be as simple as a chemical attack in a confined space like the NY subway or the London Underground, working on the basis that it will create panic, people won't be able to get away from it fast enough and even if what you create is harmless the fear will impact people for weeks and months to come.

MoreCoffee · Oct 4, 2017

The shooter in Las Vegas was not a criminal - he would be now but he was not before he did the shooting.

USA Guns, gun control, and rights.

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